Royal Lac - French polish
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| Any updates on Royal-Lac? http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=46871 |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Any updates on Royal-Lac? |
I know there was some excitement about it, then much disappointment after some perhaps too extreme testing. Anyone tried it under normal use circumstances? |
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| Author: | Toonces [ Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Any updates on Royal-Lac? |
Hi Ed, I've heard good things about it from folks who have either padded it on (French Polish style) or wiped or brushed it on. Tim McKnight was using a special formulation for spraying. I am not sure if that was the problem but I would highly recommend doing a test panel and seeing how it looks 6 months from now. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Any updates on Royal-Lac? |
I've sprayed the regular formula on a mandolin and two guitars so far. I'm very happy with the results but none of the instruments have much age on them yet. Only about 5 months. Here's a few shots of the mandolin, it was hand buffed. Attachment: IMG_1844.JPG Attachment: IMG_1845.JPG
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| Author: | TRein [ Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Any updates on Royal-Lac? |
I have worked with it fairly extensively. No spraying, however. I found it impossible to brush, even with a very good brushes like a Golden Taklon and a very fine cow hair brush made specifically for brushing varnish on musical instruments. Lap marks and ridges were inevitable. I worked with Vijay on the idea of incorporating some Oil of Spike Lavender into Royal Lac to retard the drying enough to flow out. Various mixtures in various percentages did not make a huge difference. Royal Lac does not behave exactly like shellac with French polishing. First, there is an unpleasant styrene-like odor to Royal Lac. The MSDS on Vijay's site lists some fairly nasty chemicals, which Vijay told me were there only as components of the denatured alcohol he uses. One of the great features of French polishing is that the lubricating oil and ethanol are not miscible. It is possible to entrap oil in a French polished film in the form of an emulsion but spiriting off can solve this problem by bringing the oil to the surface. When I tried French polishing Royal Lac I was surprised by the amount of oil that was being "consumed" in the process. The vapor trail "cloud" that flashes off behind a properly charged rubber in traditional shellac French polishing was largely absent with Royal Lac. Spiriting off on the following day resulted with a kind of greasy looking patch on the rubber. Spiriting off shellac French polish leaves just a tiny bit of oil on the rubber that really only shows up after the alcohol has evaporated from the rubber cover. The biggest clue that the oil was being incorporated into the Royal Lac film was when I tried to do a little sanding to level dust nibs, etc. The gold sandpaper I use clogged immediately when used on French polished Royal Lac. My earlier attempts with brushing Royal Lac required extensive sanding to level brush marks. When dried overnight the brushed Royal Lac powdered admirably and with less clogging than nitro. So, for me Royal Lac is an "almost there" product. I find the odor is strong and requires me to use a chemical respirator when exposed to it for any length of time. If Royal Lac could be made less toxic and more amenable to hand application, whether brush or pad, I think it would be at the top of the list for many luthiers, both amateur and professional. Vijay is a conscientious guy and is sincerely interested in making sure his products work for his customers so I'm hoping someday we may see the 2.0 version of Royal Lac. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Any updates on Royal-Lac? |
Thanks for that. |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Any updates on Royal-Lac? |
Thanks for the report, TRein! I French polish regular shellac without oil, so that part should be no problem for me. But I don't do toxic chemicals, so that's a deal breaker. I wish one of these hard shellac producers would use pure ethanol, denatured with something harmless like Bitrex. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Any updates on Royal-Lac? |
I want to have someone else spray it... |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Any updates on Royal-Lac? |
It's easy to spray. I use a respirator, of course, but the Royal Lac doesn't out gas like nitro so you can keep working in the shop after an hour or so. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Any updates on Royal-Lac? |
It would be sub contracted so no bother there... |
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| Author: | johnparchem [ Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Any updates on Royal-Lac? |
I have had a ukulele with padded on Royal-lac hold up a full year now. I have used it on a few other instruments this year with good results. |
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| Author: | Pmaj7 [ Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Any updates on Royal-Lac? |
johnparchem wrote: I have had a ukulele with padded on Royal-lac hold up a full year now. I have used it on a few other instruments this year with good results. French polished or what? |
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| Author: | Imbler [ Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Any updates on Royal-Lac? |
I french polished my last guitar 9 or 10 months ago, and really liked it. I don't use oil when I FP, so if that is a problem, I avoided it. I found it to build quicker than plain shellac and finished the guitar in probably 1/2 to 2/3 the time I normally take. No problems so far, and I get the benefit of greatly improved resistance to damage from sweat, etc. Mike |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Any updates on Royal-Lac? |
I've padded through an entire container, so quite a bit of time. I didn't experience any kind of unpleasant smell at all. Mine had a sweet smell, just like the button lac I mixed last week. |
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| Author: | johnparchem [ Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Any updates on Royal-Lac? |
pat macaluso wrote: johnparchem wrote: I have had a ukulele with padded on Royal-lac hold up a full year now. I have used it on a few other instruments this year with good results. French polished or what? Sorry I was going to say in my last post, I mostly pad Roy-lac on. I use a proper muñeca but do not apply as long at any one time as I do when I French polish, also apply with the grain and do not use oil. |
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| Author: | Linus [ Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Any updates on Royal-Lac? |
I French polished on with a tiny bit of mineral oil when Inthought I needed it. Worked great, went on fast, and I didn't notice a strong smell. I'm happy with it. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Fri Dec 25, 2015 12:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Any updates on Royal-Lac? |
Royal Lac - French polish
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Fri Dec 25, 2015 12:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Any updates on Royal-Lac? |
Coincidentally, that looks exactly like the Padauk I want to use it on... |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Fri Dec 25, 2015 12:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Any updates on Royal-Lac? |
Some of Bob's(RCTonewoods) best! |
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